From: Michael R. Stein
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: interview with former K-ite, June 1999
Dear Kolki researchers,
About a year ago, I interviewed a native Kolki-ite who
survived WWII and remained in Poland until 1950, when he
emigrated to Israel. I have reproduced the interview below,
keeping my interviewee anonymous, since I do not have
permission to use his name. (I have reason to believe
that this is the same person who was the subject of another
anonymous interview posted by Selma a few weeks ago.)
My interviewee is relatively young compared to my relatives
who emigrated in the early 1900s, and had no knowledge of
anyone in my family, except my grandfather's brother-in-law,
Ruven Schnitzer.
The quality of my tape recorder made it difficult to make out
some words and phrases when I was transcribing, but I don't
think they are crucial to following what he had to say.
Mike Stein
Interview 5/25/1999. Copyright 1999 by Michael R. Stein,
all rights reserved.
(Original interview conducted in Hebrew; translation by MS
6/14-15/1999. Original question and answer format has been
edited into a first-person narrative. Order has been
changed in a few places to bring similar subjects
together. Tape is hard to hear in places.)
I was born in 1915. My family [like yours] also left
Kolki [MS: i.e. for Israel, America, etc.]; I was the only one
who stayed behind. They are now in Baltimore... I stayed
in Kolki until 1941. I was in the Russian army. In 1939
I was a Polish citizen [MS: was Kolki part of Poland between
the wars, the way Rovno was?]. The Russians partitioned
Poland with the Germans, and I was in the Russian sector. I
was a Soviet citizen, and in 1941, when the war began, I was
drafted. The war started on June 22, and I was drafted
on June 23 or 24. There was a big battle between Korotz?
and Zhitomir, and I was wounded. I awoke in the Zhitomir
hospital - the city was on fire, so they took us to transport
camps, and then to Kiev. Kiev was also burning, so they took
us to ?? (further east). Then they took us to the
Urals. There they began to build tank factories that we
worked in.
I arrived in the Urals in 1942. I stayed until 1946,
when we were discharged. I traveled to Poland. I
didn't need a visa. I had a letter saying that no one
from my family remained. I traveled to a part of
Germany, Niederschlesen, that had been freed and annexed to
Poland, to the city of Breslau. I lived there until
1950, and got married there. In 1950, I came to Israel.
I was born in Kolki, and I lived there all the time until
WWII. I didn't know any family named Steiner in
Kolki. The pig hair business was a Jewish business; it
was mostly centered in Odessa. All families in Kolki
were religious, including mine. I went to a Polish
school in Kolki, but I also learned in a Tarbut school.
This was several m'lamdim who formed their own school in which
they taught spoken Hebrew with an Ashkenazi accent. Once
we made a vow not to speak any Yiddish for 3 days. It
was wonderful.
I knew a Lerner family. The father was Chayyim, Motel and
Shloime were sons, and there were 2 daughters whose
names I don't remember. I remember they all were
married. Shloime had a small grocery store????.
One was in Kolki. I remember that before Rosh Hashana
and Pesach, my family would go there to buy clothing. My
brother went in there before the chagim, took all the
packages, without paying. Why? Chayyim Lerner was an
[?]. In the evening my brother went back, they figured
out the bill, and he took only 7 or 8 %. I remember this
family well.
I remember Pesi der klezmer. I knew his son Ruven
Schnitzer in Rovno. They were also my family by
marriage. My sister married his youngest brother,
Fishel. Moishe Schnitzer, Velvel Schnitzer, Lozar
Schnitzer,-- Pesi der klezmer had 16 children, 12 from his
first wife, 4 from his second. I didn't know Ruven
Schnitzer's wife, Feige - it's possible that I knew her then,
but I don't remember her. Ruven had a sister named
Feige, and another sister whose family name was Spiegele in
Rozhes?. She had a son, Shloime Spiegel. My sister's
son, Yitzchak, is no longer alive. I don't know of any
Schnitzers who are still in Russia or in Israel. Fishel may
still be alive in Russia. I'll see if I have an address for
him. He lives in Belgod?, near Kharkov. [MS: didn't find an
address]
I was at the wedding of my sister and Fishel Schnitzer.
There were seven days of celebration after the wedding in the
house of Pesach der klezmer. That was in 1931 or 1932.
Moishe Schnitzer was the oldest, then Ruven, then Feige, --
Ruven had a shoe store. Pesach Schnitzer's boys were not
musicians. I remember that .... Pesach Schnitzer was not
a chazan.
I didn't know any Binyumin Eisenberg or Leah Kolodny, nor any
of Herschel Wolf, -- I knew a Melach Eisenberg and a Herschel
Eisenberg. I don't know if he was Herschel Wolf or not, but he
wasn't any part of my family.
I don't recall any Kolki families who went to America while I
was there. I recall one family went to Brazil or
Argentina. Brick's [MS: someone else from Kolki whom I
met in Israel] uncle went to Argentina. He worked with pig
bristles. I don't remember his name. I didn't know
any family named Deutsch from Kolki. I did know a family
named Fidel. Boruch Fidel had a son who went to
Argentina. One was Herschel Fidel, another was Tzvi
Fidel, who stayed in Kolki. There was also a David
Fidel, and the oldest sister was named Hudel. She was
married, I think, to somone named Katz. Now I think I
remember there was another borther named Shlomo who also went
to Argentina.
I remember many people from Kolki. When I was at Yad
vaShem ...it was about 45-50 years ago, they started to
collect names at Yad vaShem, and when I came from Poland,
I....
I don't know the name Kosoki or Kaiser from Kolki.
I went to America around 1990, and I looked up my relatives in
Baltimore. My aunt left Kolki in 1937. I stayed with
them several days. I think they thought that I wanted
money from them. [lots of gossip about the standard of
living of his Baltimore relatives
omitted]
My father's name was Yitzchak.
I have a list of names that I gave to Yad vaShem.
Fishel's sister [MS: from end of this paragraph, he probably
meant, and maybe even said, Pesach Schnitzer's sister] died in
Baltimore. I have a picture of him which I got [MS: from
the Baltimore family?
I have a whole collection of things from Kolki. [shows a
picture] ``We give you this photo as an everlasting memento to
the director of the Tarbut School, Chayyim Spitz,
1929''. I recognize all the girls in the picture. Bela
Bustig. Gitel Biber. Rivka Bustig. Mirel Feld.
Rivka Fidel. 2 Edelstein girls [MS: first names hard to make
out]. 2 brothers named [Karnov?]. Chayyim Spitz
left for Israel. He was the head of the Tarbut school.
[shows another picture] I am not in this picture. My
younger sister is in it. This woman is named Shapira,
she was a Polish language teacher. In 1975 I was here
and my wife and I saw her at a lecture. I went up to her and
said ``excuse me. Are you Sonja Shapiro?'' She grabbed
me and said ``I used to be. Now I'm called Goldstein.
Who are you'' ``You wouldn't know my name, but you were my
teacher.''
Here's the list which I gave to Yad vaShem of people from
Kolki who died in the Shoah. All these these Schnitzers
--Avraham, Eliezer, Shmuel, Bela, Malka, Wolf, Batya - were
from the same family [MS: I assume the family of Pesach
Schnitzer]. Batya was the wife of one of the Schnitzer
boys.
Sheinde Lerner and David Lerner - I don't remember now who
they were. Some other Lerners on the list: Shlomo, Rachel,
Chana, Mordechai, Eliezer. All from the same family.
Many of the inhabitants of Kolki were [Karlin-]Stolner
chasidim. Pesi Schnitzer was one. They still exist, with
branches in Yerushalayim and B'nei Brak. Every year, in
the winter, Reb Yochanan [MS: I think a former Stolner Rebbe]
would come to Kolki in a sleigh. He had very beautiful
???. When I came to Israel, one of the chassidim found
out from Yad vaShem that I, a former Kolki-ite, was here, and
he called me to ask me if I had the names of any Karlin-Stolin
chassidim [???]. He came to take the names from me - I'm
not a chasid. A while later, they were here in Tel Aviv,
and they called to tell me that the Rebbe was here and he
wanted very much to see me - this is the son of the Rebbe I
knew in Kolki; he is now deceased. I went to the
verbrengen, and afterwards the gabbai grabbed me by the shirt
and said the Rebbe wanted to see me, and brought me back to
see the Rebbe. We talked about the old days, and he
wanted to know if I remembered any of the melodies of his
father, or if I had any pictures. I told them I had one
picture of the former Stolner Rebbe, but it wasn't in very
good condition. Nevertheless, they wanted it, so I went home
and made copies and sent them to Yerushalayim. From that
time on, these chassidim were always very gracious to
me. When my wife died, the Rebbe sent 3 of his
yeshiva boys to my house to be m'nachem avel and learn
mishnayot in her memory. Before every festival, someone from
the Stolner chassidim calls to wish me ``Gut Yomtov''.
